Interview With the President of the World's Biggest Sex Doll Company

Hello, Dr.

Brandon.

Hello, Dr.

Morgenthaler.

We have a guest.

I'm so excited about our guest today, Sue Ennis.

She's the president of Real Dolls.

And you are about to learn more than you could ever imagine about humanoid dolls and sex dolls.

And it's a very exciting moment for me because I have been aware of Real Dolls for a decade and sort of watching from the background as the world of sex dolls has gained speed.

So it's really exciting for me to have Sue here.

So thanks for joining us, Sue.

Before we start, a small disclaimer.

The Sex Doctor's podcast is not a substitute for medical or psychological advice.

Yes, thank you so much for having me.

I'm really excited to talk about my plan as president of Real Doll.

I took over the company about 90 days ago.

And effectively, we're a brand that's 30 years old, but what we're really creating is two different things.

It's the Apple store of intimacy technology amplified by AI.

And also, and I'm sure we'll get into it, we're really focused on creating what we think is going to be the stripe for AI embodiment because this is where technology and intimacy, we think, is going.

And so excited to get into it with you guys today.

Yeah, such an important topic.

I mean, it's such an important topic where humanity is going with regards to intimacy.

It's like, and it's not discussed.

So I'm thrilled to have this conversation today.

Can you tell us a little bit about Real Dolls, just so people have a better sense?

Yeah, absolutely.

So Real Doll was technically born in 1996.

And it was the brainchild of a sculptor by the name of Matt.

And so he was a sculptor who specialized in high-end sort of custom Halloween masks, but he always, he had a fascination with the human form.

And he also had a fascination with this idea of robots and sculpture that would live and work and co-create and coexist amongst humans.

So he's always been very passionate about that.

So he started, in his spare time, sculpting these massive live, these massive sort of human-like figures in his shop in 1996 and started selling them on the internet because people kept saying, wow, the realism here is extraordinary because realism is something that what we specifically specialize in.

And then what ended up happening is his customers then came back to him and said, you know, love, love the form, but can you put some anatomy in some of these figures?

Like, because I really love this form.

And so that's kind of how this was born.

Like he didn't set out as a companionship figure or intimacy hardware manufacturer.

It was sort of born out of his love of sculpture and then customers coming to him and saying, hey, this is what I'd also like to see.

And I think what's really interesting is that the worship of form and the worship of sculpture and ultimately using it in intimate encounters is nothing new.

We have seen this for thousands of years from ancient Greece when Laodamia took a bronze statue of her husband to bed after he was killed in the Trojan War to Pygmalion creating his like dream woman to Shunga, which is the, yeah, I'm saying that correctly.

Shunga, which is the Japanese erotic art that's existed for thousands of years that often would depict and it started in the Edo period of Japan that would often depict erotic interactions, interactions between humans, heterosexual, homosexual, and also mythical creatures and tentacles.

And so the worship of form and form and intimacy, sculpture and intimacy is nothing new.

And so, yeah, I think Real Doll just sort of brought it to the forefront in 1996.

And so what got you attracted to working in this area in career choice, right?

For sure, for sure.

So I've spent the past 10 years in the crypto, specifically Bitcoin and then AI industry.

So I literally left a job, a fabulous job I'd been at for five and a half years at a company called Hut8, which is a publicly traded energy infrastructure company.

We started there as Bitcoin miners.

But I left that job as head of investor relations as head of government affairs.

Fantastic job, fantastic team.

Still a huge shareholder or still a shareholder.

But I left this job to take on the role of president of Real Doll and revamping this company because of a few things I saw happening in the intimacy space with respect to AI coming in that looked a lot like what I saw in the crypto space in 2016, aka new and nascent technology, tons of billions of dollars flowing around, no real rules.

Like we haven't really figured out the rules of the road for AI, especially as it pertains to intimacy.

A ton of bros in this industry at the table creating the businesses, creating the products, and almost no females on the business side deciding what markets are, do we speak to, what customers are we speaking to, or creating a diversity of perspective at the table.

And that's a lot like what crypto looked like in 2015, 2016 when I first got into there, but I didn't have the confidence to be like, no, like diverse perspective and females need to be at the table in terms of deciding how technology, in particular this technology, is going to shape this industry.

So I was on the board of the parent company that owns Real Doll for two years.

And then this opportunity to take over and revamp it came because we're splitting apart our parent company from the Real Doll business.

And yeah, I put my hand up because again, I decline women and a diverse perspective not being at the table in terms of deciding how AI shapes the intimacy industry and what products get made and what markets get served.

So that's why I'm here.

Love that.

Love that.

And can you introduce us to the ladies behind you?

Okay, so these are, I believe this is Rachel and this is Olivia.

Hold on, Sue, it's great to have you.

For those of you who are just listening, let me tell you what our viewers are seeing is behind Sue are two, they look like humans, but they're clearly, they're not moving.

So they're not humans.

They're dolls.

One is brunette, one is blonde.

One is wearing like a Greek white kind of dress.

Yeah.

They're sitting right behind Sue.

So she's now going to introduce us to her friends.

Yeah, that's right.

So for this one, so one of the, one of the new markets, and just to be clear for your audience, we do not just do like full-size figures.

We also do all kinds of different intimacy hardware.

We do avatars that are focused on intimacy skill building.

And again, like I said, we're trying to create a platform for AI embodiment and then also just a platform for play and curiosity and novelty.

So anyhow, and this is what we've been doing since 1996.

So one of the markets that we believe is not served and we're seeing quite a bit of demand is the cosplay industry.

So that's a $35 billion market.

And we have quite a few cosplayers and members of cosplay communities who've reached out to me and us on through our various social media outlets and said, we would love to see some custom pieces that speak to like our love of pirates or satyrs or fauns.

And so these two gals are going to be part of our pirate series, I believe.

And then unfortunately I couldn't roll them in, but we have a bunch of male dolls that we're also launching after one of our male doll videos going absolutely viral and gals and gays saying, where is something for me?

And so we're, I, unfortunately I couldn't roll that in here, but yeah, this is an example of like where we're starting to take some of our, some of our figures.

How do you feel about that, Dr.

Morgenthaler?

I'm not sure I'm in the world of cosplay, but I listen, I think that's a great business move.

Yeah.

I mean, look, again, for me, it's, it's about like a representation of, of diverse perspective.

It's about going into markets where there is already play and exploration.

And again, like humans have always used their most powerful tools to explore intimacy from the printing press to the internet and now AI.

And again, I just want to make sure that, you know, we're, we're, we're serving as many people as possible in, in this area of play and curiosity.

You know, when I lecture about the future of humanity and intimacy, I say that it is very conceivable that a child born today would have their first sexual experience with a robot.

That feels true to you, right?

Does it?

I feel like, again, what we are, what I'm thinking of is, I would never want it to be like a replacement, but like a, like an amplification or a, a alternative.

But I wouldn't say, I mean, that's, it's entirely impossible.

It's entirely possible, but that's on that note.

And I agree again, I'm not, I'm not sure I'm like advocating for that, but I agree it's entirely possible.

And that's why it's so important to have the rules, the parameters, like frameworks for safety in this space, because if it is left unchecked, it is going to go, in my opinion, into the wrong fricking hands.

And you're right.

Like children, young adults have these tools at their disposal and there needs to be the right security and safety and frameworks around how this stuff gets used and evolved.

But you're right.

It's, it's entirely possible.

I mean, look, there's like 15 million people on character.ai and something like 680 million worldwide using chatbots.

That is within the realm of possibility for sure, which is why safety is so important.

Yeah.

Cool.

Sue, so I think that your company is best known for the dolls, but I think you have some other, some other products too.

Yes.

Yeah.

So, so, so what can you show us?

I mean, yeah, if your Not the dolls or robots so much, but even like this hologram type pixie, and you know, you see this little video clip, and you can understand that, and it's got some Asian, probably Japanese guy, I think sort of a young man, you know, and the pixie says, remember to take an umbrella today as he goes off to work because it's gonna be raining.

And you could see why that would be appealing to some people who, especially if they're isolated socially, don't have a lot of people.

And I'm wondering how you see your products sort of filling the, I don't know what you'd call it, the loneliness gap or the loneliness need.

Yeah, so to be clear, like I just for your audience, because this is something I'm super passionate about, we are not advocating for robots to replace human relationships for, you know, like we are not advocating for that.

We are a platform again for like learning the intimacy skills and also again, for play and for an alternative and for like as a complement to existing human relationships.

I like really want, like, because sometimes the media like really loves to like twist sort of what we're doing here.

But so that's why whoever's watching, I just want you to know that is, we are not advocating for humans to not be part of the conversation.

But to your point, yes, like something like one in four people in North America alone haven't had a real conversation with a human in like 30 days, like on average.

There's something like 66% of young adults between the age of 22 and 26, I believe call themselves digi-sexual, AKA they are actually in a relationship with a chatbot.

And so, and so again, so it is here.

We are not putting intimacy and AI back in the box.

And so there needs to be frameworks and rules of the road.

And so another thing I'm doing since taking over this company is I, is I manage all of our customer email inboxes because I think it's really important to like hear what people are saying.

And a lot of the requests I get, guys, is not, first of all, I haven't met an incel yet.

I was on the board of this company for two years and candidly, I, I did think that a lot of our customers, I was like, this is probably a bunch of incels in their mom's basement, like who are ordering our stuff.

I have not met one and I have thousands of customers.

That's the other thing.

We've a huge call following thousands of customers.

I get emails from people, men and women, asking for things like, hi, you know, I'd love to order one of your products.

You know, can you make it so that they have a crush on me and we're not having sex but they have a crush on me and they think I'm so interesting and they just want to talk until late at night.

Like those are the types of emails I'm getting from customers, male and female.

Or like, I've gone through a really nasty divorce.

Like I just, I can't right now with working through more relationship stuff.

I just need something that's gonna sort of make me feel kind of alive on in, in my sexual life.

Because again, we specialize in realism.

So those are the types of things that I get.

Like, even, even honestly, so we also do custom pieces.

So I did get an email from a, a very high flying executive who travels on the regular, he says.

And so asked me if I could make a pair of his wife's breasts because his wife breastfeeds him every night and so when they're not together, it's very hard for him to sort of get that need met.

And would I be open to making a pair of his wife's breasts?

And I was like, yeah, yeah, I will.

Yes.

But again, we are, we are here to serve and bring this more mainstream.

So yeah, those are the types of things that I get beyond just sort of loneliness.

There's definitely like that type of stuff and then also play.

I have a lot of married couples who've been buying from us for decades who use some of our products to introduce novelty into their marriage.

So yeah.

Wow.

I have to show you something.

I'm not sure where, where he's going.

So, um, oh.

What does this have to do with sex dolls and AI robots?

This is our cat.

It's a cushion.

It's a cushion, right?

And you probably hug that cushion.

Right.

So our cat's name, our cat's name is Ace.

Uh, we call him Fuzzy.

He looks just like that.

But he sits, he sits on our uh living room uh sofa and we see him as we go everywhere.

And I could imagine, you may wonder how this connects, but I think it's pretty obvious.

I can imagine that you, that some people would want to have a companion.

That you would create that they might not even want to have sex with, but it's, if they have AI capability, especially, but they might be pleasing, they might be just to have them as a companion in their living room, just like our cushion of our uh cat.

We actually, yeah.

And they can just talk to it.

What, what about that?

Exactly.

Yes.

So, um, yes, there I have multiple customers who, uh, there's one guy in particular, Jay, the doll king.

He's a really nice guy.

Um, He, he says that these are his companions.

He is not liaise with them.

Um, And I have a few, I have a woman who has it as a companion.

She does not liaise with, with the male doll.

Um and again, like this, this idea of, yeah, you've got the pillow of the cat, like a companion.

It's, it's not that far of a departure, even in terms of the way people like connect with pets and animals and just sort of non-human figures.

As I said at the beginning of this call, like the worship of sculpture and statue is thousands of years old.

We see it in ancient Greece, in ancient Rome.

Like I said, Shunga in the Edo period of Japan.

The Dame de Voyage for the Dutch sailors in 1700s.

Now that was more, they were really just defiling um bags of oats, I think it was, that they sort of dressed up as women.

So like, maybe that's not a good example.

Yeah, the Dame de Voyage is like a thing in 17th century.

And then anyways, for sailors who were at sea for a very long time, they basically had their own little sex doll.

So again, I wouldn't really say that that's like a similar topic, but, but this idea of like form and sculpture that is inanimate being a part of the home and a part of life is not new.

The media will have you believe it's so taboo and gross.

But like history literally tells us otherwise.

So, so people must be wondering if they're having sex with the doll, how does it get cleaned?

And I'm of the understanding that the genitals, I don't know by real dolls, but I'm certainly uh uh familiar with this sort of topic in general and genitals can be removed and cleaned, right?

Yeah, yeah, that's right.

Yeah, yeah, that's right.

And we, uh, we include very um clear instructions in terms of how to like care for your doll, how to clean, how to sanitize.

That's obviously very important.

Um, so yeah.

What's the, what's, what's the, what's the skin made out of?

And what does it feel like?

Yeah, so it feels like skin, which again is sort of where real doll has always had, um, again, we've told that line since 1996 between sort of intimacy hardware and actually art because it does feel like real skin.

Uh so it's a proprietary silicone blend.

We haven't patented it because when you patent something that's basically like handing a menu to the Chinese to copy or to anyone to copy.

Um so it's a proprietary silicone blend, but again, it's platinum cured.

There's no TPEs, there's no latex.

It's medical grade.

Um and it's a particular blend that we've been using since '96.

So.

But it feels like skin.

Do you have a sense of when you think that this industry is going to um be able to produce like dolls at scale, like humanoid dolls?

Like does, does real dolls have an idea about that?

Like when they might be producing them?

Yes, scale.

Yeah.

So, um, so UBtech out of China uh just announced their adult companion doll.

And it's really interesting cause companion um dolls, intimacy hardware, all of that in Japan, China, South Korea is like very socially acceptable.

Like it is not considered that taboo.

You can walk into um like a convenience store in Japan and see like some really what we in the West would consider super offside stuff.

Like but again, over there in Asia, it's just, it's a lot more sort of mainstream and acceptable.

Anyway, so where I'm going with this is um China, uh, one of the, there's a manufacturer out of there who I think is, is saying that they're gonna be producing something like 4,000 dolls in the next, like, like every year starting in the next two or three years.

So again, we don't, I don't, I'm not sure I have like a very like clear view as to when, but whenever that when is, I want real dolls to be that trusted partner from a craftsmanship perspective, from a safety and parameters perspective.

Like again, even in terms of how we've designed our AI avatars, they cannot engage in any obviously violence, behavior or violent talk.

Um talk about anything to do with minors.

We've designed them so that there is no continuous engagement loop.

So we don't have it where, um, like we've designed our avatars with friction in mind to sort of mimic how friction happens